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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1957
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Posted - 2014.10.29 15:26:18 -
[1] - Quote
you are massively down playing the benefits of selectable damage types and having decent damage projection without spending time swapping ammo.
and no, a medium blaster loaded with null does not out perform a medium autocannon in every category. you can still load that auto cannon with barrage or swap damage types.
One thing you could do with projectiles on the other hand is change the range modifiers on the ammo from optimal to fall off and make the ammo choices a bit more meaningful.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1957
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Posted - 2014.10.29 16:04:03 -
[2] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:
At short-range, there is simply no reason to use them when blasters are better at everything.
Bearing in mind blasters are meant for brawling, AC's stiil give you better damage against most AF's, HACs and T3's, give you more choice in ranges to engage in and immunity to neuts is more than cool when youre not in a 1v1. It becomes a big deal and in fact a counter to neuts in gang and fleet fights.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1957
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Posted - 2014.10.29 17:01:54 -
[3] - Quote
Badman Lasermouse wrote:
Where exactly is that sweet spot where autocannons outperform blasters or lasers?
you said it yourself, less dps, more range and with better tracking. oh and selectable damage types and immunity to neuts.
tell me what your null dps does to a kitey ishtar gang compared to EMP or Barrage? or IN-MF does to a brawl gang with geddon support.
@SMT
again youre thinking of 1v1 situations.
many, MANY ships fit neuts. there is a very healthy neut vexor navy/ishtar/geddon/prophecy meta out there. And when your fighting for territory rather than a 1v1 you dont always have that luxury of 'Oh well i can see on D-scan you've countered my ship so ill just leave now'.
The sheer versatility the autocannon provides, that sweet spot middle ground and robust resistance to neuts is an excellent conservative choice when you cant always pick your fights and dont know what youre coming up against.
You come with brawlers? ill pull range, i dont need to refit nor even swap ammo save to poke your resist hole
You come with lasers? ill close range and brawl you down, again i dnt really need to refit change ammo.
You come in a shield ishtar? Thats ok you're still in fall off, i still track ok and i can poke that resist hole.
Your gang is heavy on neuts? That's alright, wasnt using that prop mod when im scrammed and webbed anyways and logi keeps me alive.
other weapons dont have these 'on the fly' answers. so yeah, if you know what youre fighting and can pick those fights, by all means pick the right weapon for the job.
But if you dont know what the enemy are bringing before you have a chance to refit or reship, and you dont have a choice as to whether you take the fight or not because youre needed to defend something more meaningful than your killboard, then auto-cannons (along side missiles) are an excellent choice for being a jack of all trades, master of none.
TL:DR
the strength of autocannons is changing tactics on the fly and being difficult to counter.
AC's may not be as good as other weapons when they are at their best, but they are a whole lot better than other weapons at their worst.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1958
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Posted - 2014.10.29 21:37:33 -
[4] - Quote
SMT youve just gone straight back to saying 'when i know what im facing id much rather fly this or this blah blah and if i cant win i run away'.
good for you, but there are some ppl who go into enemy territory, cannot dock, cannot refit and have actually come with a purpose in mind that isnt padding their killboard.
You dont know whether your enemy will bring shield or armour, kitey or brawl, glass cannon or ultra logi, neuts,ecm or damps.
all you know is that hes going to see you and what youre flying first. And with that information will build a fleet comp with the purpose of making it as easy as possible to beat your fleet comp.
@ stitch
yep AC's are medium range weapons, and that is exactly what they do right now.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1958
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Posted - 2014.10.30 16:32:47 -
[5] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:
Dude, you can fumble around with words all you want, but it's pretty clear everything takes a dump on AC boats at pretty much every purposes.
If it wasn't the case, you'd regularly see AC-based doctrines all around nullsec and lowsec. But it doesn't happen.
It would happen more if ACs weren't bad.
Why? it doesnt surprise me at all that there arent that many AC doctrines when most fleets are like yours where they try to specialise, but when they get countered they disengage and go home without a fight. Thats the nature of most fights.
its much less common to committed to a fight before it starts.
edit- specialisation has always been favourable to generalisation when you can dictate the terms of the fight. But you cant always dictate the terms of the fight.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1966
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Posted - 2014.10.31 14:27:29 -
[6] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:And when you are (like alliance tournies) you do see more AC's. What AC ships are you talking about ? Except Sleipnirs (which are very much used as high-tank brawling ships), I haven't seen many AC ships.
Vargurs, Jaguars, slashers, thrashers, sabres, dramiels, machariels, stilletos, AC Ferox's, huginns, AC Herons, Lokis, stabber fleets, stabbers, rapier, ruptures, canes, rifters, vagas, cynabals etc
but you dont see that many turrets in general, more missiles and drones. Lasers seem to be the least used.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1966
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Posted - 2014.10.31 14:55:44 -
[7] - Quote
Badman Lasermouse wrote:Gawain Edmond wrote:ok i think anyone who's quoting numbers and dps from now on should also include the fit for the omen navy to hit to 41km it needs 2 tracking computers, you can go tracking enhancers but you need 4 heat sinks to get 330 dps and with a 6km fall off you gotta have the tracking computers. Do we count ships that don't have tanks prop mods or tackle in these arguments? because my eft'ed pest gets 1100+ dps without drones and applies damage out to 47km!!
If you increase the range of ac's to compeate with pulse lasers then no one will ever use pulse lasers because the cap could be better spent on other things if another gun will do the job at the same range so I'd like to give pulse lasers a win button so that when they shoot everything dies. You know since we're asking for silly things and making stuff up!
Ok so that last part got a bit silly. Feel free to post that 1100 Gun DPS Pest fit. Because if it exists (which is doesn't) It will become the only ship I ever fly again. Badman
shield tempest has over 1100dps with hail and falloff is at ~30km. but at 47km its doing less than 100 gun dps, its probably drones doing most the dps at that range.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1968
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Posted - 2014.11.01 12:45:17 -
[8] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
A mega outdps the tempest with blaster on all ranges. That while armor tanked and the tempest shield tanked!!! Ifyou armor tank the tempest, it becomes a massive joke.
This is true.
@SMT
asks about tournies, then talks about TQ null sec.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2121
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Posted - 2015.01.08 17:40:19 -
[9] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote:
Are you saying usage equals balance? lawl.
the primary argument for un-nerfing AC's is that their usage has gone down.
'lawl'
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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